Mastiff Family Forum

Kelly · Rally Joined: 15 Oct 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Ohio

Sorry this is going to be long…

First off I would like to say that I did not do any of this for peace of mind. I am not into torturing my dog for my happiness! Now some of this I was going to post on the pedigree page but it is simpler to start from the beginning. My family are all dog lovers and large breed lovers for that matter. My sister had a rottie that passed away of cancer, my brother had a newph that passed away of cystinaria and I had a lab that passed away of a very rare heart condition. So first and foremost my biggest concern has always been health and I knew from get go that Mastiffs had their share of health issues. Some you could control with pedigree’s and some you couldn’t. So when Tim and I made the decision to get a mastiff we did a ton of research and asked millions of questions. After we gained some knowledge we spoke to over 30 breeders, went to dog shows and interviewed over 10 vets with mastiff knowledge. I had major emails to all of these breeders with over 20 questions, I looked at pedigree’s I asked all about health testing and I learned a ton more. I am still not sure if Kaboose will ever show, I don’t know when he will mature enough to do so, he is still a crazy puppy, but if the day comes and we decide not to show him, just as a “dog” owner I will still test for everything no matter the cost. This betters the breed, this betters the knowledge of Kabooses lines, this makes me know that I am doing anything that I can to make him healthy and happy! So we found a breeder, Tara that was breeding two wonderful dogs which came from very reputable breeders with a lot of health testing in their back grounds. No dog comes with a guarantee, but I knew that we were going to have a quality puppy from this breeding, plus she encouraged us with going forward with all the testing, she had nothing to hide and appreciated the fact that we were going to do all we could….

Next chapter, we brought Kaboose home and were scared to pieces. I was always worried about raised feeders, non raised feeders when to exercise and when not to. I was worried with the stairs, jumping in and out of a car everything. Who really thought that such a massive dog could really be so fragile? Thankfully I completely trust my breeder and I 100% trust my vet! He is wonderful and owns a bull mastiff and is the vet to three of the breeders that I spoke to in the past. He also knew my brother and the newph he once had so he knew and understood how scared I was over health problems. Once we decided to go ahead with getting Kabooses declaws removed I asked him a million questions about bloat, he and I sat with Kaboose between us and talked for over an hour. I was like a sponge, I wanted to know all I could. Mostly because Kaboose was so active, he loved running around and I was always worried that something would happen because he wasn’t ever the puppy who would eat and then fall asleep. It was as if we were feeding him power pellets and he would spaz out after eating. Our vet told me that bloat/stomach torsion wasn’t a simple science at all. There were wise tales and myths and that the reality of it was all dogs have a 50/50 chance. I told him how I was pretty sure that none of the dogs in Kabooses lines had suffered and that he had a raised feeder and we tried to keep him calm before and after feeding… turns out, no one know’s if this helps or hurts, they see cases that reflect different scenarios all the time. He said that it was more common in dogs that are narrow in the hind quarters or with deeper chests and that was really about it. I asked how long it takes, what the out come was most of the time, what the surgery entailed, all of that. It scared me even further, all of his answers were very dim. The surgery was horrible, the chances were slim and it could all be over anywhere within 2-4 hours. All of this was so scary given that Tim and I both work and the probability of us not being home was high. Mostly the pain and suffering of these poor dogs. I asked, let me repeat that I ASKED, I was not forced or recommended to, if there was any kind of surgery that could prevent it? Could they staple or tack his stomach before it happen the way they did after. Yes, they could. Was it more or just as evasive? Absolutely not. It is all done endoscopicly now, he would have two puncture wounds, one by his rib cage and the other right around his navel, it was a 20 minute surgery that he had never heard of coming un-tacked. I asked if this would affect his growth, I mean come on he was 80lbs at the time with the potential of doubling that… I was told no, I was told that many of the breeders that came to him, that I knew did this with all the dogs that they kept. The risk then totally outweighed the risk if we didn’t have it done! So we did it, since he was already going under for his claws I decided what better time, it’s scary having any dog go under anesthesia but much scarier when they start weighing 150-200lbs. The day Kaboose went in I almost changed my mind. I felt selfish, I felt horrible, but Tim made me stick to my guns, he said imagine how much worse it would be if he suffered from bloat think of the surgery they described to you once it does happen. So for maybe about 12 hours he whined and was out of it, after that twelve hours he was a happy fun loving puppy, I never gave him a pain pill again after those twelve hours. To solidify our choice Tim had to go to the vet the next day to get more bandages for his declaws and two dogs were rushed in for emergency bloat surgery. How about that for a sign! I highly recommend this surgery. Most vets might not have the technology to do it the way our vets did though. If they don’t then don’t do it! If they haven’t done it a lot, then don’t do it! If you are worried about cost, there are payment programs and it is miniscule compared to the cost if your dog suffered and had to go into emergency surgery. I of course consulted with my breeder before doing this and she had my back, I wouldn’t do anything like that if it wasn’t in the best interest of Kaboose and it was, he may now drink freely, eat freely, run freely and be the puppy that he is with absolutely no restrictions.

Again, I am so sorry this is so long, but I needed everyone to understand why we made this decision, this isn’t the choice of all and most don’t even know it is out there, but there was a history behind it and I feel 100% sure in what we did FOR Kaboose! Hope this helps some one out there!

Courtney · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:55 am Post subject:

Thank you so much for posting that Kelly. I do have a few questions, does this prevent bloat 100% or is there still a slight chance of this happening?
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Kelly · Rally Joined: 15 Oct 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Ohio

His stomach can still fill with gas, it's totally unlikely but it could happen. His stomach can not twist which is what kills because it stops the flow of blood and oxygen sending the dog into shock and the system shuts down. If he does fill with gas we can simply give him gas-x and take him to the vet.

Courtney · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:27 am Post subject:

I will try to find some articles on this....I know of a few people that have done the tacking of the stomach.

Do you use raised food bowls?
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Kelly · Rally Joined: 15 Oct 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Ohio

Yes we do, but it's because he won't eat from a bowl unless it is raised. When we brought him to Michigan once he wouldn't eat and we figured out it was because it wasn't raised. I put it in my lap and he ate like a champ. I know a lot of people who don't used raised. We always thought that we would let him free feed, but apparently he is entirely too hungry to ever let food sit in the bowl. Plus, he likes his toppers.

I will talk to my vet and see if he has anything he can forward to me.

Courtney · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:09 am Post subject:

That would be great Kelly...Thanks!!
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Liz · Beginner Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 36 Location: Ohio

Legend is currently on free feed. We only have to worry about him eating to fast when we mix in canned food, which is actually more of a treat. He eats that so fast, but we stop him half way through and walk him once around the house, just to settle his belly.

Kelly · Rally Joined: 15 Oct 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Ohio

My vet said that free feed has it's complications as well, if you exercise them when they pick at food all day and then they drink too much it can cause the food to expand even more because there is more oxygen in the belly. Kind of the same way that a car with less gas in the tank will explode worse than a car with a full tank... Seriously, he had an answer to everything thing. It was freaky. I am not putting down anyones replies, it really still seems to be a mystery. He seems to think that because everyone has a different way and for some it works, for others the same things doesn't. It was all just a little bit too scary for me!

RayMcD · Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Posts: 1 Location: Pittsburgh

Hello everyone, My name is Ray McDonough, owner of Otis. I have found everything on the forum very informative and helpful, so I would like to thank yinz(as we say in Pittsburgh). I was curious about dogs getting the hiccups. Otis seems to get them every once in a while after eating or after he gets a drink. They only last for a few minutes though. He eats and drinks from raised bowls. He looks uncomfortable as well when he gets them. Is there something I should change or eliminate from his drinking/eating routine and is this something that is common or a problem?

Courtney · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:11 am Post subject:

Hi Ray......

Hiccups are common in puppies, even my bigger guys get them. They are just caused by taking in too much air while eating or drinking. Nothing to be alarmed about. Your doing a fantastic job with Otis, he is lucky to have a dad like you!!

Did you get the aquariam put up yet?? Laughing

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